Sick of American-car bashing....

You got it.. At some point, we got to stop burying our collective heads in the sand and look at what's happening. American NON UNION workers are building American sourced cars in America. (Albeit, they are Japonese/Korean/German nameplates) They are building them with BETTER QC than American workers in the FORD/GM/CHRYLER plants for FAR less money.
 
"when your hungry see how that $hit box jap crap commie car in your garage tastes on your plate."
Japan is communist now? When did that happen, exactly?
You might want to let these people know. They seem to have their facts about the Japanese Democratic Parliament in disarray, apparently.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2136.html
;)
 
The first Japanese cars (and many that followed) were nothing more than copies of British cars. There is still little original or innovative about Japanese cars, and nothing to styling. It doesn't take long for Japanese car styles to look very 'dated', and they mostly start as very insipid.

The first BMW was a copy of an Austin, the Austin Seven I think, in the '30s.
an interesting beginning for what today everyone sees as great German vehicle and innovator.
 
The first BMW was a copy of an Austin, the Austin Seven I think, in the '30s.
an interesting beginning for what today everyone sees as great German vehicle and innovator.

That same Austin was built in the US by the ancestor of the Jeep. And the first Ford was a buggy with a little motor. What does any of that have to do with today?
 
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You got it.. At some point, we got to stop burying our collective heads in the sand and look at what's happening. American NON UNION workers are building American sourced cars in America. (Albeit, they are Japonese/Korean/German nameplates) They are building them with BETTER QC than American workers in the FORD/GM/CHRYLER plants for FAR less money.


You are ignoring the fact that all of the NON UNION factories are relatively new as is their workforce,
so the Japanese/German/Korean manufactureres aren't saddled with silly little things like long term health care and pension plans for retirees...

BTW: I no longer buy the old B.S. about domestic cars and their poor quality.
The problem is that the domestic manufacturers don't offer any products that consumers are excited about buying.
Lincoln's answer to sagging sales is not to offer something inventive/ exciting/powerful like Cadillac does, Lincoln just keeps slapping on more and more garish CHROME.:puke:
 
That same Austin was built in the US by the ancestor of the Jeep. And the first Ford was a buggy with a little motor. What does any of that have to do with today?

It was just a point of interest.
What has not much to do with it is the first Ford being a buggy with a little motor. In those days pretty much every automobile was a 'horseless carriage'

The 'Austin' built by BMW was not built under any license, it was a straight unauthorised copy. So much for originality.
 
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To touch on a few points from above:
1. The Lincoln MKX (Or whatever its silly letters are) and Edge actually sold much better than Ford had expected, so they must have struck a chord with the public somewhere on that one, extra chrome or not.
2. A lot of these Japanese manufacturers now have a lot of plants in North America. They are also publicly owned, so you could have shares in them just like you could in Ford, Chev, Chrysler. Have you checked with your broker lately to see where your money is invested? Is he putting it into Ford, or Toyota? Have you asked? If he said "Toyota", would you tell him to put it in "Ford"? Remember, its considered "Junk" stock right now, so is your money going to go where your mouth is?
3. Non-union does not mean "communist". In fact, non-union is the ultimate capitalits system. It's how the mine operators used to oppress people in my native Cape Breton Island. They essentially endentured families in the mining towns for life. Their children, too, until the "socialist" idea of unions was able to take hold. However, as long as unions still exist in other plants, places like Toyota and Michelin will continue to have good pay, good benefits becuasee they can't afford to have people point at them and say that inequality is the result of non-union operations. However, when the last union falls, do you think these corporations will feel any compunction whatsoever to maintain high standards of pay, benefits, worked rights?
4. Companies that come here and say if we unionize, we'll close, are blowing smoke. The problem is, our governments are on their side. The proper way to deal with it should be to allow them to leave, but tarrif their products so heavily if they try to bring them into North America that they could not possibly sell a single unit. They would come crawling back, I assure you. This is what the Americas governments did achieve with the Japanese imports. If they weren't assembled here, or had significant components manufactured here, then they would be tarrifed out of existence. Our local Volvo plant was the result of this trade regulation. Sadly, NAFTA ended that as it has for so many. Mexico now gets the industries that once were a significant part of our economies. And until mexico starts importing as much from us as it exports back, we'll continue to have a problem.
5. Unions cxertainly started out as a very good thing, ending the oppression of huge corporations and their government backers. However, unions have in many ways forgotten their true purpose: Protect the oppressed and provide an opportunity for people to earn a fair wage in a fair and safe workplace. Now, instead of going after the millions of workers who are prevented "full time" status and the comensurate benefits they would entail at retailers throughout North America, they sit back and try to keep getting more and more money from the companies that are already unionized, essentially making them uncompetitive and running them into the ground.

I'm not saying all of this to proclaim fact. I'm hoping to encourage a bit of discussion and get us all to think in broader strokes than "Your commie Honda Sucks". Lets look at everything and see where we can make the biggest difference. Ie: If we not only bought Fords, but bought all of the shares we could (which would be a lot at the current prices), then attended the shareholders meetings, maybe we could make a real difference in the company we love.

Some interesting links:

Brief account of unionizing in Cape Breton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Cape_Breton

Brief history of Unions in America: http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Eco_Unionization.htm

Thoughts? Comments?
 
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Management!!!!

You got it.. At some point, we got to stop burying our collective heads in the sand and look at what's happening. American NON UNION workers are building American sourced cars in America. (Albeit, they are Japonese/Korean/German nameplates) They are building them with BETTER QC than American workers in the FORD/GM/CHRYLER plants for FAR less money.


It is how the factory is managed. Now Toyota is building a plant in Tn. to build the Highlander/RX300 which is made in Japan. Drive around any main street in American and wonder why you so many Honda's & Toyota's. People will spend money on a product that works and have quality, in cars it is also resale value. Ford has come up short on so many models mostly due to underpowered engines. Look at Marauder. Need I say more.
 
Interesting thought. In many cases, yes, I would agree. Often complacency and a sense of entitlement cause a workforce and its government to react to competition through protectionist practices. Take the softwood lumber issue between Canada and the US for example.
But when you trade between economies with completely different standards of living and GDP, "overpaid" becomes a very relative and arguable term. To a worker in Mexico, $100 a week might be pretty good, since bread costs 35c, there is public transport (of some sort) to the factory instead of your own car, etc. Compare to an American worker who pays $1.50 for bread, needs a car because public transit is underfunded and underdeveloped. The $100 a week doesn't go to far in America (er, the United States - America is a continent, not a country - sorry). These are two extremely simplistic and perhaps silly comparisons, but they should give the idea about why $100 a week in one country doesn't allow for fair competition in another.
 
Due to world peace and changes in technology we are in a global economy.

We need to do things that others cannot or do them better than others can.

As our competitors develop an infrastructure and a better educated work force they are able to compete with us better and better.

Either we close our borders to all outside labor, goods and services, (it did not work in the Soviet Union) or we compete.

If the Mexicans can produce a cheaper/better Ford Taurus then the consumer will buy the Mexican Taurus.

If consumers were not price driven then Walmart would not be the world's largest retailer.
 
When I was younger, I drove nothing but GM cars. Until that fateful daily joke was pulled on me in the form of a 1991 Bonneville SSEi Supercharged. I felt like I was on Candid Camera daily. Then it was lovingly wrecked in the side by a stop sign runner. I had to drive it wrecked after making a mint on it. I saw a charcoal gray Toyota Cressida (this was in 1994 BTW) at Bill Branch Chevrolet and tried to buy it on the spot with CA$H. Salesman takes a look at me and says "that car is expensive, can your mommy co-sign for you?" If I remember, I had about $6800.00 cash on me. I left leaving a nice smoke show (I didn't care, the Bonneville was a total loss) and went down the street and got a Ford Probe LX (Mazda 626 drivetrain), loaded with EVERYTHING for $4,000 out the door!!!! Drove that until 205,000 miles and sold it to my cousin. She drove it for thre more years. Bought a 1995 Taurus SE in '97 and put 282,000 miles on it. Replaced one tranny, the radiator and A/C clutch. That is all. Now I have the Marauder and I am a Ford guy to the marrow. I work on cars every day and get to take them apart so I see how they're built. Those of you with newer GM cars and trucks - you have it coming when it comes to replacing stuff. I have a customer with a Plummer (plastic Hummer) H2 and his door latch failed to latch and threw off the security, the door chime and keyless entry. When it was replaced out of warranty it was in excess of $600.00 because it was tied in to a door computer and needed to be programmed in. A 40 dollar part. I hate GM cars with a criminal passion and I was never fond of Chrysler after my brother was stuck with a Neon that had all the paint fly off like teflon primer was used. Honda cars feel old and tired when thay have 60K on the odometer. Toyota's feel like bolt-upright appliances. I have found that simplicity gives me the greatest joy. I have driven a BMW 760 Li with the iDrive system and it is the class-leader for eyes-off-the-road time. I don't need doors that pull closed by themselves or wipers that start when a drop of water hits the glass. I hate Daytime Running Lamps and believe they take away a motorcyclists edge in traffic. Okay, I am done whining.
 
Good article, Dan. really enjoyed that. I wasn't familiar with the formalized concept. Of course, it does rely heavily on benevolent governments. Too often we find ourselves reaping the benefits of produce or goods from countries that do not benefit equally from trade. Oppressed people in deplorable conditions making little if anything by way of income - certainly at or below the subsistance level - to provide goods to a rich economy. This, of course, is Africa now. In the 1800s and early 1900s, it was in many ways America. So how do we get a world to follow good economic models without the threat of well connected capitalists using government force to keep the playing field as uneven as possible?
This might make an interesting new thread, since its really at the root of "Poeple Bashing American Cars".
 
There will always be evil, 7% to be exact, in the world. You cannot stop it.

The countries that have the least government involvement in their economies have the highest standards of living.

The countries with the most government involvment, usually in the form of corruption, have the lowest standards of living.
 
There will always be evil, 7% to be exact, in the world. You cannot stop it.

The countries that have the least government involvement in their economies have the highest standards of living.

The countries with the most government involvment, usually in the form of corruption, have the lowest standards of living.

Corrupt tyrants and governments in Mexico, Central & South America, and Africa come to mind.
 
April Consumer Reports

I'm no shill for Consumer Reports, but the latest issue (April), is their annual auto issue. They have an excellent essay, "Which companies make the best cars? Global fight with intriguing results", starting on page 16. It covers all the issues mentioned in this thread, and then some.
 
The linked commentary is on the whole magazine issue. My referenced article has much more detail.
 
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