Health Care, Obama.....

LIGHTNIN1 said:
Look at the Monster you created.
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Well in all honesty I thought any good info/debates would have ended peacefully at about the 5 page mark, but as this health care thing grows, so does the information and opinions. Interesting to say the least. I still don't like the thought of coverage for all at my expense, sorry.
 
I still don't like the thought of coverage for all at my expense, sorry.


I agree totally and this thing has not even started yet. My state legislature passed a bill to opt out of Obamacare because we can not afford the cost as a state that the feds will pass on to us. The governor(Democrat) vetoed it. Now the legislature is in the process of over riding his veto.
 
LIGHTNIN1 said:
I still don't like the thought of coverage for all at my expense, sorry.


I agree totally and this thing has not even started yet. My state legislature passed a bill to opt out of Obamacare because we can not afford the cost as a state that the feds will pass on to us. The governor(Democrat) vetoed it. Now the legislature is in the process of over riding his veto.
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Next time he's up for election kick him out.
 
CBT said:
Well in all honesty I thought any good info/debates would have ended peacefully at about the 5 page mark, but as this health care thing grows, so does the information and opinions. Interesting to say the least. I still don't like the thought of coverage for all at my expense, sorry.
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Well, I think a key point to this thread still being around is that we've maintained a civil (albeit spirited, at times ;)) discourse on the topic.

This is an issue that is going to have profound ramifications on all of us for yeasrs to come if it plays out as-is, and the younger the person, the more impact it ill have.

I hope it stays alive and active for a while.
 
Phrog_gunner said:
So then it will have almost ZERO impact on you. ;)
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Good point. :D

Fortuantely, I'll prolly be long gone by the time the "reformed" healthcare program has fully bankrupted this country, while at the same time totally sending quality of care to
shithappens.gif
. Guess we'll just leave it up to the 'youts to clean up the mess...
 
My first question in my first post on this thread was "just how much do you guys pay?" Noboby awnsered the question, perhaps it was a little personal. Here is an USA today article from last year saying the average family premiums was $13,375 per year, a staggering amount!

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

Sounds to me you guys are allready paying an incredible amount and then if you do need care you have to deal with insurance companies who will put the screws to you anyway they can.

The stress this must put on so many folks.

Just my opinion, :beer:
 
kernie said:
My first question in my first post on this thread was "just how much do you guys pay?" Noboby awnsered the question, perhaps it was a little personal. Here is an USA today article from last year saying the average family premiums was $13,375 per year, a staggering amount!

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

Sounds to me you guys are allready paying an incredible amount and then if you do need care you have to deal with insurance companies who will put the screws to you anyway they can.

The stress this must put on so many folks.

Just my opinion, :beer:
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What's considered an incredible amount? What if health insurance is a benefit provided by your employer? Was that factored into your comment? As for getting "the screws put to you" on what assumption is that based? What constitues a "screwing?"

I can guar-en-dam-tee you that the recently passed healthcare "reform" legislation is going to exacerbate rather than reduce the stress associated with health care.

One thing you need to understand kernie, this whole Obamanation doesn't have anything to do with improving health care, it's all about increasing government control over its citizens.

Control = power. When it comes right down to it, politicians don't give a rat's azz about the state of healthcare, the focus is on aquiring and maintaining power, the whole healthcare issue is nothing more than a red herring to accomplish that power grab.
 
sc cheesehead said:
what's considered an incredible amount? What if health insurance is a benefit provided by your employer? Was that factored into your comment? As for getting "the screws put to you" on what assumption is that based? What constitues a "screwing?"

i can guar-en-dam-tee you that the recently passed healthcare "reform" legislation is going to exacerbate rather than reduce the stress associated with health care.

one thing you need to understand kernie, this whole obamanation doesn't have anything to do with improving health care, it's all about increasing government control over its citizens.

control = power. When it comes right down to it, politicians don't give a rat's azz about the state of healthcare, the focus is on aquiring and maintaining power, the whole healthcare issue is nothing more than a red herring to accomplish that power grab.
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......................
art_biden_gi.jpg
 
SC Cheesehead said:
What's considered an incredible amount? What if health insurance is a benefit provided by your employer? Was that factored into your comment? As for getting "the screws put to you" on what assumption is that based? What constitues a "screwing?"

I can guar-en-dam-tee you that the recently passed healthcare "reform" legislation is going to exacerbate rather than reduce the stress associated with health care.

One thing you need to understand kernie, this whole Obamanation doesn't have anything to do with improving health care, it's all about increasing government control over its citizens.

Control = power. When it comes right down to it, politicians don't give a rat's azz about the state of healthcare, the focus is on aquiring and maintaining power, the whole healthcare issue is nothing more than a red herring to accomplish that power grab.
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Thanks for the reasonable reply SC,

"What is consitered an incredible amount?" 1200 bucks a month for the average family IS an incredible amount in my mind, if you get it through work, great, still costs you one way or the other.

"What constitutes a screwing?" Insurance companies here have much the same mindset as stateside, plain and simple, get out of paying anyway you can. Everyone myself included has stories about this, how anyone could possibly defend them, i dunno. When it comes to home or auto insurance i go with a large deductable for lower premiums and cause i dont want to deal with them, i'm so happy they dont have a finger on my pulse!

Stress, well in ALL other western countries who ALL have universal healthcare there is no stress assosiated with healthcare, no pre-existing conditions, even the homeless are cared for, are you telling me the US CANT do what everyone else does?

I have "howard stern on demand", on the "fan favorite" section at least here they have a contest called "stuck on you", they had 10 contestants vying for 20 grand if they can stay handcuffed to "jeff the drunk" for 4 days, funny as hell. They chose a woman with a sob story, her hubby has a heart condition and they cant afford to go to the doctor. You would have to see it to believe it, this "jeff the drunk" must be the most vile person on the planet but she was saving her hubby in her mind, that my friend is stress.

In the Michael Moore film "sicko" {i know MM is a favorite target of the right wingers} a guy in th US, lets call him stubby, loses two fingers, he is told the first finger will cost you 12 grand to re-attach, the secomd one 60 grand, so he could only afford the first finger to be re-attached, the canadian guy, here in london lost all 4 fingers, yup all re-attached without question, that my friend is stress.

Anyway, enough from me, have a good day. :beer:
 
Since health care is so much worse here than it is in the rest of the socialized world, it would seem that the illegal immigrants would bypass America and rush to Canada. Maybe they just don't get it.
 
FordNut said:
Since health care is so much worse here than it is in the rest of the socialized world, it would seem that the illegal immigrants would bypass America and rush to Canada. Maybe they just don't get it.
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Well you have to SHOW you are canadian to get free care, many desperate americans try that trick, mostly doesn't work. Illegals are not hired here either for the most part, why do they thrive down there?

:beer:
 
FordNut said:
So if someone can't prove they're Canadian they get turned away?
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Well i believe so, mind you if you are a visitor and are involved in a car accident they dont just let you die, i cant really tell you for sure, i'm no expert. There is photo I.D. medical cards so if you are a "feriner", he he, and your looking for cancer care, yes you will not get it.

Your friend, believe it or not,

kernie:beer:
 
kernie said:
Well i believe so, mind you if you are a visitor and are involved in a car accident they dont just let you die, i cant really tell you for sure, i'm no expert. There is photo I.D. medical cards so if you are a "feriner", he he, and your looking for cancer care, yes you will not get it.

Your friend, believe it or not,

kernie:beer:
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Maybe that's what we ought to do, if illegals go to the ER for medical treatment and don't have their papers just kick them to the curb...

in Mexico (or wherever "home" is).
 
FordNut said:
Maybe that's what we ought to do, if illegals go to the ER for medical treatment and don't have their papers just kick them to the curb...

in Mexico (or wherever "home" is).
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Hey if someone crosses your border illegally they lose all rights, period, compassion for human life means you treat them to save thier life and not "turn off the fountains in the desert", we really are not that far apart in thinking, believe it or not.

Your friend, kernie.
 
kernie said:
Thanks for the reasonable reply SC,

"What is consitered an incredible amount?" 1200 bucks a month for the average family IS an incredible amount in my mind, if you get it through work, great, still costs you one way or the other.

"What constitutes a screwing?" Insurance companies here have much the same mindset as stateside, plain and simple, get out of paying anyway you can. Everyone myself included has stories about this, how anyone could possibly defend them, i dunno. When it comes to home or auto insurance i go with a large deductable for lower premiums and cause i dont want to deal with them, i'm so happy they dont have a finger on my pulse!

Stress, well in ALL other western countries who ALL have universal healthcare there is no stress assosiated with healthcare, no pre-existing conditions, even the homeless are cared for, are you telling me the US CANT do what everyone else does?

I have "howard stern on demand", on the "fan favorite" section at least here they have a contest called "stuck on you", they had 10 contestants vying for 20 grand if they can stay handcuffed to "jeff the drunk" for 4 days, funny as hell. They chose a woman with a sob story, her hubby has a heart condition and they cant afford to go to the doctor. You would have to see it to believe it, this "jeff the drunk" must be the most vile person on the planet but she was saving her hubby in her mind, that my friend is stress.

In the Michael Moore film "sicko" {i know MM is a favorite target of the right wingers} a guy in th US, lets call him stubby, loses two fingers, he is told the first finger will cost you 12 grand to re-attach, the secomd one 60 grand, so he could only afford the first finger to be re-attached, the canadian guy, here in london lost all 4 fingers, yup all re-attached without question, that my friend is stress.

Anyway, enough from me, have a good day. :beer:
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I don't pay $1,200 a month now, and never have. What's included in that coverage, and how was it obtained, I wonder.

Not defending, but on the other hand, they are a business, and SHOULD be questioning the bills they are paying, if they're not, well, one can only ponder the potential fraud and waste being paid for.

Please tell that "no stress" line to my two dead Canadian cousins who passed away due to waiting lists associated with treatments, or the unfortunate dialysis patients in St. John, NB who are no longer able to obtain weekly dialysis in St. John, but must now drive 64 miles to Fredricton once or twice weekly to receive treatments, this due to cutbacks enacted in provincial healthcare services while I was on assignment up there last year. Yup, we should all be so lucky.

No, I'm telling you that we don't WANT to do what everyone else is doing, we can't afford it, and it doesn't look like you folks can either:
"TORONTO, ON—Provincial spending on health care continues to grow faster than provincial revenues, with six out of 10 provinces projected to be spending half of all available revenue on health care by 2034, according to a new report from the Fraser Institute, one of Canada’s leading economic think-tanks.
Ontario and New Brunswick face the biggest crunch, where health expenditures are on pace to consume half of total provincial revenues by 2014 or earlier...'Unless provincial governments can devise a better way to finance health care, they will be forced to either hike taxes, expand rationing of medical goods and services, or make extensive cut backs in other government programs'.”
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/newsandevents/news/7042.aspx
​
Do you really believe that if she took her husband to a hospital due to his heart condition down here in the states that he would be denied health care? Once again, we've got a situation where someone is twisting "can't afford insurance" with "won't receive health care."

Sorry, I catagorically reject ANTHING set forward by Michael Moore, that Socialist :censor: would love nothing more than to see the downfall of this country. If you've got to resort to using him for examples, you've totally discredited yourself.
 
SC Cheesehead said:
"TORONTO, ON—Provincial spending on health care continues to grow faster than provincial revenues, with six out of 10 provinces projected to be spending half of all available revenue on health care by 2034, according to a new report from the Fraser Institute, one of Canada’s leading economic think-tanks.
Ontario and New Brunswick face the biggest crunch, where health expenditures are on pace to consume half of total provincial revenues by 2014 or earlier...'Unless provincial governments can devise a better way to finance health care, they will be forced to either hike taxes, expand rationing of medical goods and services, or make extensive cut backs in other government programs'.”
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/newsandevents/news/7042.aspx
​
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There is no rationing...
 
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