CT Shooting

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I feel bad...

I went back and re-read this thread and it appears that my question is what caused it to get off-track. I brought into this thread what needs not to be discussed; those discussions can be held in a different venue.

This thread was started to discuss the tragic event that happened and to serve as a venue to discuss our emotions/grief about the situation, not necessarily the who/what/when/where/why/how...that will come about in due time.

I really wish I would have not posed my question in this thread and I am very regretful that I did.
 
You guys don't understand teachers.

Most teachers will place themselves between a killer and their students, myself included. Our students are our kids too.

I have watched 4 of my own students buried for different reasons. Don't think for a second that I can not only remember their names (and much about who they are), but the same about every child who has been in my class room.

Most teachers will NEVER carry a gun in school, even if allowed to.

Guns in school where kids now know they are within reach, even on someone's hip or locked away will be used in the next killing spree. If they know there is a gun in the office, the office staff just became the first targets.

The solution to this does NOT involve more guns. Period.

The teachers at Sandy Hook elementary are heroes and they should be remembered as such.

This lunatic had enough ammo on him to kill many more people. How many lives were saved because the teachers knew what to do in an emergency? They locked doors, followed procedure and kept most of those kids safe - some by giving their lives so others could remove the other students from harm's way.

Pray for the kids and their families, but also this. The next time some of you open your mouths to criticize what we do and how much of a drain on society we are, remember what ELSE we do during the day to keep your children safe.
 
My friends and I hit the Jersey shore every now and then, grab a coffee, a few beers, stop at a McD's, and head home.

On a Saturday, McD's is loaded with kids at lunchtime. Sometime, there's a birthday party and a clown shows up.

How do we protect those kids? Arm the young girl that takes my BigMac order?

My local mall, of which my town has many, has a merry-go-round 50 ft from an entrance door. Yes, there are mall cops with guns, but who can stop a killer with an automatic weapon from dashing in and shooting up the place in just a few seconds?

On the next block is a baseball/football open playing field. Kids play there all the time in the summer.

Again, how do we protect a crowded baseball field from a crazy person with an automatic weapon and body armor?

We will not, and cannot, outlaw guns entirely, so I don't have an answer.

But if the answer is, arm everybody, the bad guys will load up on body armor because they may be crazy and sick, but they ain't stupid.

We never worried about guns when I was a schoolkid in the 1950's.

What happened?
 
The sensationalist media giving 24 hour news coverage to clinically insane psychopaths wanting to be remembered, and the internet. THAT'S what happened.
 
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Here's a true story that may place the events in Conn in perspective. My four year old son attends a pre school which is right next to a High School. Two weeks ago when I was going to pick him up in the afternoon a guy in a Mercedes cuts across three lanes of traffic and almost hits me As I'm following I see him swerve and almost hit a school bus head on. Coincidentally he pulls in to the same parking lot as I do. We get out of the cars and as I'm passing him I say "are you aware that you cut off a number of cars and almost hit a school bus" Hearing this he flys off the handle starts cursing up a storm and starts waving his arms around in the air. I then give him fair warning and tell him to calm down or something real bad is going to happen. I am now fully prepared both mentally and physically to bust his head real bad. He then calms down and walks away . After school every day I take my son to the children's library which is also on the grounds of the two schools .On thurs I see the dude as I'm having a snack with my son in the library cafeteria. He goes to the candy machine ,buys candy and starts staring at me foe about 3 min and leaves. Today he comes in to the cafeteria,buys candy and leans against the wall and pulls out a gravity knife about 5 fingers long and opens the candy with it while looking at me. I take my son to the library room and come out to confront the ******* but the dude is gone I then go to the local police station to report the incident and after fully describing the incident they tell me there is nothing they can do because he has not broken any laws. Now my big fear is that he will harm my son So in light of events this past week I notified Police Here is an excellent example of an unstable individual running loose .Believe me Iam not one to call Police (I am an ex LEO) for trivial reasons what I am now forced to do is ignore the guy (that ain't happening) or devise a way to inflict bodily harm as protection. What would you guys do
 
mike P71 said:
Here's a true story that may place the events in Conn in perspective. My four year old son attends a pre school which is right next to a High School. Two weeks ago when I was going to pick him up in the afternoon a guy in a Mercedes cuts across three lanes of traffic and almost hits me As I'm following I see him swerve and almost hit a school bus head on. Coincidentally he pulls in to the same parking lot as I do. We get out of the cars and as I'm passing him I say "are you aware that you cut off a number of cars and almost hit a school bus" Hearing this he flys off the handle starts cursing up a storm and starts waving his arms around in the air. I then give him fair warning and tell him to calm down or something real bad is going to happen. I am now fully prepared both mentally and physically to bust his head real bad. He then calms down and walks away . After school every day I take my son to the children's library which is also on the grounds of the two schools .On thurs I see the dude as I'm having a snack with my son in the library cafeteria. He goes to the candy machine ,buys candy and starts staring at me foe about 3 min and leaves. Today he comes in to the cafeteria,buys candy and leans against the wall and pulls out a gravity knife about 5 fingers long and opens the candy with it while looking at me. I take my son to the library room and come out to confront the ******* but the dude is gone I then go to the local police station to report the incident and after fully describing the incident they tell me there is nothing they can do because he has not broken any laws. Now my big fear is that he will harm my son So in light of events this past week I notified Police Here is an excellent example of an unstable individual running loose .Believe me Iam not one to call Police (I am an ex LEO) for trivial reasons what I am now forced to do is ignore the guy (that ain't happening) or devise a way to inflict bodily harm as protection. What would you guys do
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I'd report this to school officials as well, in light of Fridays events, they will be more apt to take action.

The sad thing is, in instances like this we are left as a society to be reactive, as when they aren't breaking a law, it's difficult to be proactive.

Also talk with your son, make sure he knows who the man is, and tell him if he sees him on campus outside of your presence to notify a school official and stay far away


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mike P71 said:
Here's a true story that may place the events in Conn in perspective. My four year old son attends a pre school which is right next to a High School. Two weeks ago when I was going to pick him up in the afternoon a guy in a Mercedes cuts across three lanes of traffic and almost hits me As I'm following I see him swerve and almost hit a school bus head on. Coincidentally he pulls in to the same parking lot as I do. We get out of the cars and as I'm passing him I say "are you aware that you cut off a number of cars and almost hit a school bus" Hearing this he flys off the handle starts cursing up a storm and starts waving his arms around in the air. I then give him fair warning and tell him to calm down or something real bad is going to happen. I am now fully prepared both mentally and physically to bust his head real bad. He then calms down and walks away . After school every day I take my son to the children's library which is also on the grounds of the two schools .On thurs I see the dude as I'm having a snack with my son in the library cafeteria. He goes to the candy machine ,buys candy and starts staring at me foe about 3 min and leaves. Today he comes in to the cafeteria,buys candy and leans against the wall and pulls out a gravity knife about 5 fingers long and opens the candy with it while looking at me. I take my son to the library room and come out to confront the ******* but the dude is gone I then go to the local police station to report the incident and after fully describing the incident they tell me there is nothing they can do because he has not broken any laws. Now my big fear is that he will harm my son So in light of events this past week I notified Police Here is an excellent example of an unstable individual running loose .Believe me Iam not one to call Police (I am an ex LEO) for trivial reasons what I am now forced to do is ignore the guy (that ain't happening) or devise a way to inflict bodily harm as protection. What would you guys do
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Shove the knife as far as you can up his a$$.

I have been away all weekend and have not been able to respond before now. The problem is not guns though a weapon is still a tool and not able to kill anyone with someone pulling the trigger. The problem is the laws of this country have become so lax that crimials can commit crimes and all they receive as a sentence is a wrist slap. We need to pass stricter sentences on crimials to fit the crime; rape = crastration; murder = execution and so forth. No more awww the poor guy is not mentally stable; no s_h_i_t Sherlock. Stop babeing crimianls and the crim rate will go down.

Maybe instead of hiring ex-LEOs or a private securty guards the school districts should hire out of work parents or have an trained armed neighborhood watch patrol the schools. No one is going to protect the students then their own parents.
 
I'd go back to the PD and ask to see a supervisor. Unless something has changed in the my 28 month retirement, gravity knives are illegal in NYS. The mere possession is a misdeameanor criminal offense. Being an ex LEO you know what you have to see to be able to act.
Notifying the school is an excellent idea, they will act if he is bringing any kind of knife onto their grounds.
 
mike P71 said:
What would you guys do?
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I would scope out the area pretty well looking for his back-up. These guys tend not to like a one-on-one confrontation when there is a strong likelihood he will come out on the short end. Might be 2-to-1 or even 3-to-1 odds now that he seems to be stalking you at the library. The buddies would also be prepared to testify that "you were the aggressor" regardless of what went down. Be careful and watch your back.
 
With all this back and forth, I fear nothing major will be accomplished, and that just adds to the tragedy.

Unfortunately, these poor kids/teachers will be buried, the story will go off the 24/7 newscycle, we'll be celebrating the holidays, and then we'll watch the NFL playoffs and the Superbowl.

In between there will be a few snowstorms/blizzards, and then we'll be looking forward to nicer weather, baseball season, cleaning and driving our cars more, and old car shows.

Then, the cycle will repeat itself.
 
Thanks for the great feedback. I have an appt today with the Ltd at the precinct I visited yesterday. I also have requested to view the video camera tapes from the library to see if the dude in on tape. I also intend to notify both schools. I will keep you posted on what happens today
 
jerrym3 said:
With all this back and forth, I fear nothing major will be accomplished, and that just adds to the tragedy.

Unfortunately, these poor kids/teachers will be buried, the story will go off the 24/7 newscycle, we'll be celebrating the holidays, and then we'll watch the NFL playoffs and the Superbowl.

In between there will be a few snowstorms/blizzards, and then we'll be looking forward to nicer weather, baseball season, cleaning and driving our cars more, and old car shows.

Then, the cycle will repeat itself.
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How true....:agree:

OZ
 
jerrym3 said:
With all this back and forth, I fear nothing major will be accomplished, and that just adds to the tragedy.

Unfortunately, these poor kids/teachers will be buried, the story will go off the 24/7 newscycle, we'll be celebrating the holidays, and then we'll watch the NFL playoffs and the Superbowl.

In between there will be a few snowstorms/blizzards, and then we'll be looking forward to nicer weather, baseball season, cleaning and driving our cars more, and old car shows.

Then, the cycle will repeat itself.
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What else do you want to happen? The world continues to spin on its axis and revolve around the Sun, life goes on. We mourn, we cry, but we do not stop our lives because some idiot decided to kill inocent children.

Evil will continue to happen in this world, you either hide and stick your head in the dirt or continue your life and be glad you have friends and family around you.
 
Haggis said:
What else do you want to happen? The world continues to spin on its axis and revolve around the Sun, life goes on. We mourn, we cry, but we do not stop our lives because some idiot decided to kill inocent children.

Evil will continue to happen in this world, you either hide and stick your head in the dirt or continue your life and be glad you have friends and family around you.
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Something constructive. OK?

No one says you need to stop living, but, if we keep going as-is, this will repeat.

If "life goes on" is our ultimate goal, we wouldn't have done anything after 9/11.
 
jerrym3 said:
Something constructive. OK?

No one says you need to stop living, but, if we keep going as-is, this will repeat.

If "life goes on" is our ultimate goal, we wouldn't have done anything after 9/11.
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We disagree, if life did not go on and we stuck our head in the dirt, then we would have not done a thing.
 
Just wanted to point out that NYC schools require you go through the front door, where you walk right by a NYPD cop. Every school. Even kindergarten.

Not just for nutjobs, but custody issues too. It's simple. It works. No other changes needed. Don't worry about my son.
 
Bluerauder said:
I would scope out the area pretty well looking for his back-up. These guys tend not to like a one-on-one confrontation when there is a strong likelihood he will come out on the short end. Might be 2-to-1 or even 3-to-1 odds now that he seems to be stalking you at the library. The buddies would also be prepared to testify that "you were the aggressor" regardless of what went down. Be careful and watch your back.
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Good point ^ ^

This guy appears that he won't do anything unless he thinks he's got an advantage. He 'calmed down' in the parking lot when you confronted him about his driving 'skills'...it was just the two of you. I can only guess that he didn't have anything on him that could give him the advantage.

Then he shows up when you have your son by your side and 'shows' a knife, knowing most likely you won't do anything because he has the advantage.

The right thing to do is always the hardest because you are playing by the 'rules' and the other person isn't. This guy knows nothing is going to happen to him unless you have stone-cold proof that he is a threat. "I was just using my knife to open my candy bar" is his excuse for showing it. He is waiting for you to act against him, which will give him reason to act upon you...he's baiting you into being the 'active' agressor while he plays the role of 'passive' agressor.

I would go back to the police and explain the situation again. Express to them that this guy poses a threat to you and your son and if they would be willing to send an officer to the location, just to get another set of eyes on the guy. If they still balk at helping you out, tell them that you're trying to diffuse a potentially bad situation the right way and without their help it forces you to 'take the law into your own hands'. Document all the steps you have taken so that if, and I hope not, a confrontation ensues, you have proof that you tried to handle it correctly. Maybe try to get a pic of him with his knife? I dunno...just spit-balling here...

You are in a tough situation and I hope it resolves itself without any physical confrontation. The main reason this guy is acting this way is because he feels he's got the advantage...take that away from him.
 
To Mike above, there has got to be rules if not laws about a knife on school grounds. If there isn't, after Friday, there should be. Maybe that is the blessing of me living within a mile radius of one of the highest crime areas of Chicago as well as million dollar mansions - we know this could happen here so maybe we are more aware. If that happened at our high school or grade school there would be 15 leos there just waiting for him. Just two weeks ago on the same block my twins walk to their school some creep tried to abduct some girls (8:30 AM), fortunately with lots of involved parents he was caught, turned out he sexually assaulted a girl the day before on the west side of Chicago. Why was he caught here and not 6 blocks away, luck, timing, more police presence, more parents watching their kids? I don't know.

I feel there are too many hot-heads and too many people not willing to get involved now a days - two extremes. I'm all for the right to own a gun but I think there needs to be limits. People say its not the gun that kills it is the people, to me it is the ability of a gun to make it easy to kill that matters. There is a reason why we have a limit of 16-18 years of age to drive a car, and now we are starting to have graduated licenses, we are learning as a society that it is decreasing teenage deaths. Same with seat belts. Why is it a law, because if it wasn't more people wouldn't wear them. As car guys we all know stories of someone who died because of the seat belt, I know someone personally, but we all know seat-belts save more lives than not. We can argue about trucks filled with fertilizer, knifes etc. But those can be carried-on to extremes in either direction, one can kill someone with a shoelace, if determined enough I'm sure someone can create an atomic bomb (remember that great Barney Miller episode, atomic bomb?)

I kind of like the idea of concealed carry, yet I am not sure I would trust myself to be disciplined enough. if I carried and saw that guy open a candy bar with a knife, would I be smart enough and disciplined enough not to be in his face with a gun? I'd have a hard time not trying to disarm him by hand.
 
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