The Cost of Higher Education

Bluerauder

Bluerauder

CAMaraudin' in Virginia
Just had an eye-opener today ....

The top paid 1,000 State Employees in Virginia average salary is $211,093.

The #1 employee gets $706,800.
Number 1000 gets a measly $163,762.

There are 763 state employees in Virginia who are paid more than the Governor.

So, just who are these people? 80% of them are college professors, associate professors, assistant professors, and college administrators. There are also 20 VA college presidents on the list.

The other 20% seem to come from the medical or physician managers at the Virginia Health System, program managers for the Virginia Retirement System or various physicians and administrators at State Hospitals.

Other than the Governor, I saw only two other cabinet level positions in the top 1,000 salaries.

Among the colleges, there are 5 that garner the most in the top 1,000 salaries .... 776 of them with the professors getting the bulk.

1. College of William & Mary -- 41
2. George Mason University -- 111
3. Virginia Tech -- 134
4. Virginia Commonwealth University -- 144
5. University of Virginia -- 346

Now we know what is driving the outrageous cost of higher education and the tuition hikes that have outpaced inflation by 2-3 times for the past 10-15 years.

BTW --- teachers at the elementary school level average about $56,000 with a starting salary of $47,000.

Obviously, the solution to this pay disparity between professors and elementary teachers is to start televising Elementary School Football Games. ;)

Just thought all the above was interesting ... I am sure everyone is worth every penny. :P
 
That's some craziness right there! I'm all for teachers getting paid more but dayum. We're in the wrong line of work!
 
i should have never dropped out of middle school...:P, schooling is so expensive now a days that many of people i know are in debt....$tens of thousands$, and can't even find a job they studied for......im gracious that my apprenticeship training was only $1000, and im making over twice as much money as my wife used to make who has numerous health courses under her belt.--whitey
 
I had something smart and witty to say but was afraid. I thought that only happened in Louisiana.
I was the Director of Safety for the Parish of Louisiana (one man office) and was looking up payroll information. Well I had 5 people in my department and they all were in the $100,000.00 range. I was at $22,000.00. A one man office????????
 
College is expensive, my son goes off to Mizzou next year, I was shocked at the $18,000 dollar cost per year, (room, board, tuition, books)..... hmmm that would buy a pretty nice MM. My cost back in the late 70's was $1200.00 a year, (tuition + books). Shared a house and food with some buddies, and made it through.

Luckily, my son scored a 35 on the ACT, and is eligible for scholarships, otherwise, I know I couldn't afford to do it
 
Last edited:
I agree 700K for a teaching job is nuts but to play devils advocate aren't most college level professors PH.D's.

What really is a crime in college costs is the price of text books. Total rip off IMO.
 
And yet when you compare any of their salaries to the head football or basketball coach at said universities...
 
I've heard a number of people say that higher education is going to be the next "bubble" that bursts in our economy (internet technology, then housing, etc.).

I agree with those people.

Disillusioned college grads seem to make up the largest solid chunk of people with a "cause" I've seen in the Occupy movement, but of course as I denoted, that doesn't count the fact that the largest similar chunk of people in that movement are people without a cause, just angst.


I've been slowly compiling a list of lies and misconceptions about the college system as I've gone through it, I'm hoping to turn that into a personal writing project after I graduate. Needless to say, there are a LOT.

Long of the short of it, I think the college system is writing checks that the business sector can't cash, because they were never really in with the rackett to begin with. I'm not at all saying that higher education has no place, by all means it most definitely does, but it also is most definitely not what it's being marketed and sold as right now....
 
duhtroll said:
And yet when you compare any of their salaries to the head football or basketball coach at said universities...
Click to expand...

There were only 6 coaches/assistant coaches listed in the top 1,000 ....

All from the same College/University (UVA). None from the other 19 colleges/universities.

Head Coach, Football
Assistant Coach, Football Offense
Assistant Coach, Football Defense
Assistant Coach, Football
Head Coach, Basketball
Assistant Coach, Women's Basketball

Top Salary $425K (not a head coach). Lowest listed $170K (not in basketball).

Average of the 6 above --- $287.7K
 
I guarantee you any competitive football or basketball program has their head coach paid as one of the top salaries at the university.

There are salaries that are not on your list, I'm going to bet -- likely the coaches from the other universities not mentioned.

Besides, $287K for coaching a *game*???? Some coaches don't even have classes to teach.

Also, sports don't make as much money as people think they do, given costs to run the programs, maintaining the facilities and paying the staff. Your tax dollars and tuition pay for some of it.

Bluerauder said:
There were only 6 coaches/assistant coaches listed in the top 1,000 ....

All from the same College/University (UVA). None from the other 19 colleges/universities.

Head Coach, Football
Assistant Coach, Football Offense
Assistant Coach, Football Defense
Assistant Coach, Football
Head Coach, Basketball
Assistant Coach, Women's Basketball

Top Salary $425K (not a head coach). Lowest listed $170K (not in basketball).

Average of the 6 above --- $287.7K
Click to expand...
 
duhtroll said:
There are salaries that are not on your list, I'm going to bet -- likely the coaches from the other universities not mentioned.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^ may indeed be true. They either didn't make the top 1,000 and are below $163,762 OR ... they are NOT paid by the State and are under some other arrangement OR ... maybe a combination of both STATE and Other Pay.

Proportionately, I would have expected at least about 7-8 other coaches to show up on the list

1. College of William & Mary -- 41 professors/assoc + 1 coach
2. George Mason University -- 111 professors/assoc + 2 coaches
3. Virginia Tech -- 134 professors/assoc + 2 coaches
4. Virginia Commonwealth University -- 144 professors/assoc + 2 or 3 coaches
5. University of Virginia -- 346 professors/assoc + 6 coaches
 
Last edited:
For schools with high paid coaches Football brings in big dollars either directly or to a booster club who then pays the coaches salary.

Gov't had two noble goals. Everyone gets a house and everyone gets to go to college. Gov't did this by pumping mass amounts of money directly and via loan guarrantees.

Result both homes and college tutiton increased at double the inflation rate. The housing bubble burst and the college tuition bubble is bursting.

For most who are pursuing general studies the cost of college is not worth it.

Loyola, a private college in our area is $45K per year. 4 year is $180K. Not worth it for general studies and many speciality studies. I know 2 CPAs. One went to Loyola and one went to city college. They both make the same and 10 years latter the one who went to Loyola is still paying the loan. They are married and said if they could do it over both would have gone to city college.

No one has every asked what my college GPA was and very few asked what my college education was, When it was asked it was never a factor, merely conversation.
 
Last edited:
sailsmen said:
For schools with high paid coaches Football brings in big dollars either directly or to a booster club who then pays the coaches salary.
Click to expand...

Um, in many colleges football doesn't even bring in what is needed to run their program, much less all the others (that lose money every year.) You must be referring to the top 100 or so schools that have TV contracts.

Even then, sports programs receive subsidies from student fees. If it is a public university, your tax dollars also subsidize sports programs.

Heck, even where I live the University of Northern Iowa (only ~15,000 enrollment) pays several hundred thousand per for their head coaches. I know for a fact that sports pulls money from academics -- I've seen the balance sheets and the excuses why my wife makes only $30,000 per year with a Master's in her field and 14 years experience.

Sure, the top 30 or so schools in the nation (as far as size and following) - the Texas, Ohio State, Florida size programs, etc. who can seat up to 100,000 do a little better, but to say that football brings in "big bucks" implies that the schools are rolling in profit.

Revenues are not profits. Revenues-expenses=profits. These huge programs have lots of expenses. They play in state of the art multi-million dollar facilities and have enormous travel budgets. They have dozens on staff and training facilities, equipment, you name it.
 
I wouldn't have a problem with them making 1 million dollars per year each if 2 things happened:

1. Education wasn't subsidized by tax dollars.
2. All college graduates knew the difference between there/they're/their and your/you're.

But hey, I can dream, can't I?
 
Fosters said:
2. All college graduates knew the difference between there/they're/their and your/you're.
Click to expand...

At the risk of sounding like a pretentious douche, I'd have to say that seeing ^this^ in my peers on a frequent basis is what forces me to question the college system the most.

On the one hand, I wonder why on earth I ever bothered (or had to bother) working hard to gain entrance into a private university when so many students fail at BASIC English grammar mechanics but still gain entrance anyways. I mean jeez dude, at 18/19/20 years old, why in the **** can you not even read? One of my coworkers is pretty severely dyslexic and dysgraphic, yet he can create written compositions that blow people with no reading disabilities out of the water. He's studying to become a physicist; knowing that, all I can ask some people is "what the **** is YOUR excuse?"

Then to top it off, even though these people are so terrible at even the SIMPLEST mental activities, not to mention they are no shining examples of competency within their given major, they still graduate with a degree that on paper bears the same status as mine would. What are these degrees even worth if they hand them out to anyone that can pay for them (or, in some cases, have others pay for)?


The only saving grace I've come to see is that these people fall flat on their ass once they leave the shelter of the academic world and apply for work. The common thread: they never understand how to sell themselves to an employer, and they never dreamed that (and here's the real shocker) HAVING A DEGREE IN HAND DOESN'T GUARANTEE A DAMN THING OTHER THAN A DECENT SHOT AT GETTING A JOB, right alongside the thousands and thousands of other people that are churned out of the system with empty degrees because they were awarded to students with no real competency to back it up.
 
I used to be a spelling nazi, too. :P

First of all, I'd like to point out that you're complaining about something that has nothing to do with colleges. Spelling, like grammar (with an "a" you jackwagons), is a personal responsibility, to be taken care of long before college.

If you write a graduate thesis with spelling errors your committee will likely just call you an ignorant somethingorother and make you fix them. That doesn't mean anything is learned. That is up to the individual.

Side note not directed at the poster -- I get pissed when people blame schools for their own failings, or those in others. If you get a cavity, you don't blame your dentist. If you are a miserable loser fatass drug abuser, you don't blame your doctor.

If you don't study and don't do anything in school, you don't get to blame your teacher, either. Seems in this country we have people touting personal responsibility until it comes to something they don't want to do. Then we find someone to blame.

Either you as the individual take responsibility for your own education, or you don't and are a loser.

But I digress.

Spelling is not as important as it used to be. Remember, I was as critical of people who can't spell as you are a few years ago.

Spelling is going the way of teaching cursive. They do it a little, but why is it as important to master a skill that a computer will be doing for them? I'm not saying don't practice it, but the time just isn't available anymore.

The amount of knowledge today's student is responsible for grows exponentially every few years. Spelling, like rote memorization of facts, can't take up 60-80% of the school day anymore.

I am sure I will get blasted for this, but spelling is one of those things that is less important with things like voice recognition software already available and thought control interfaces on the horizon. I'm betting in your lifetime, you eventually won't even need your hands or mouth to communicate. (not that you won't use them, but may not need to)

I find it annoying when kids turn in stuff with misspellings and sometimes I make them redo the work as a result. But in most cases they get their point across with minor corrections and that is far more important.

And if they get beat out for a job because someone in India reads and spells our language better than they do, it is their own fault. The information is presented and readily available and it is up to the individual to learn and use it.

MrBluGruv said:
At the risk of sounding like a pretentious douche, I'd have to say that seeing ^this^ in my peers on a frequent basis is what forces me to question the college system the most.

On the one hand, I wonder why on earth I ever bothered (or had to bother) working hard to gain entrance into a private university when so many students fail at BASIC English grammar mechanics but still gain entrance anyways. I mean jeez dude, at 18/19/20 years old, why in the **** can you not even read? One of my coworkers is pretty severely dyslexic and dysgraphic, yet he can create written compositions that blow people with no reading disabilities out of the water. He's studying to become a physicist; knowing that, all I can ask some people is "what the **** is YOUR excuse?"

Then to top it off, even though these people are so terrible at even the SIMPLEST mental activities, not to mention they are no shining examples of competency within their given major, they still graduate with a degree that on paper bears the same status as mine would. What are these degrees even worth if they hand them out to anyone that can pay for them (or, in some cases, have others pay for)?


The only saving grace I've come to see is that these people fall flat on their ass once they leave the shelter of the academic world and apply for work. The common thread: they never understand how to sell themselves to an employer, and they never dreamed that (and here's the real shocker) HAVING A DEGREE IN HAND DOESN'T GUARANTEE A DAMN THING OTHER THAN A DECENT SHOT AT GETTING A JOB, right alongside the thousands and thousands of other people that are churned out of the system with empty degrees because they were awarded to students with no real competency to back it up.
Click to expand...
 
duhtroll said:
I used to be a spelling nazi, too. :P

First of all, I'd like to point out that you're complaining about something that has nothing to do with colleges. Spelling, like grammar (with an "a" you jackwagons), is a personal responsibility, to be taken care of long before college.

If you write a graduate thesis with spelling errors your committee will likely just call you an ignorant somethingorother and make you fix them. That doesn't mean anything is learned. That is up to the individual.

Side note not directed at the poster -- I get pissed when people blame schools for their own failings, or those in others. If you get a cavity, you don't blame your dentist. If you are a miserable loser fatass drug abuser, you don't blame your doctor.

If you don't study and don't do anything in school, you don't get to blame your teacher, either. Seems in this country we have people touting personal responsibility until it comes to something they don't want to do. Then we find someone to blame.

Either you as the individual take responsibility for your own education, or you don't and are a loser.

But I digress.

Spelling is not as important as it used to be. Remember, I was as critical of people who can't spell as you are a few years ago.

Spelling is going the way of teaching cursive. They do it a little, but why is it as important to master a skill that a computer will be doing for them? I'm not saying don't practice it, but the time just isn't available anymore.

The amount of knowledge today's student is responsible for grows exponentially every few years. Spelling, like rote memorization of facts, can't take up 60-80% of the school day anymore.

I am sure I will get blasted for this, but spelling is one of those things that is less important with things like voice recognition software already available and thought control interfaces on the horizon. I'm betting in your lifetime, you eventually won't even need your hands or mouth to communicate. (not that you won't use them, but may not need to)

I find it annoying when kids turn in stuff with misspellings and sometimes I make them redo the work as a result. But in most cases they get their point across with minor corrections and that is far more important.

And if they get beat out for a job because someone in India reads and spells our language better than they do, it is their own fault. The information is presented and readily available and it is up to the individual to learn and use it.
Click to expand...

While I can see a logic behind your argument, I simply cannot agree with you.

I believe articulate communication is critical, and rarely do I see someone who has brilliant skills of articulation yet couldn't spell to save their life. Not to mention the fact that it is not at all difficult to do if you grew up in the language.

I'm not talking about the correct spelling of obscure words that rarely see usage in the typical vernacular either, I'm talking about common words that these people cannot spell correctly or even use correctly.

To surrender the skill of communication to machines completely is to rob ourselves of certain critical thinking skills I believe, and a level of dependence that high could be dangerous if one is to ever be without their talking and spelling device. I think this would be a sure thing mostly because where you might think people would use those tools to supplement their speaking abilities, the more likely scenario is that people would come to RELY on those machines to do it for them; if you need a reference, look at how many people use calculators to do utterly basic mathematical operations (I'm guilty of this myself.)


And while I don't believe it is the university's fault that these students can't spell, I don't understand how in good conscience you could certify that someone meets the standard of a well-educated (and in the case of liberal arts schools, "well-rounded") individual when they cannot utilize their main language of choice in even some of the most simplistic ways. If not even the basics matter, what then is the point of a college education? There must be SOME level of standards involved.

I agree that you can't fully blame the school system for an uneducated child, but this is provided the school has actually created an arguably conducive environment for learning; you can't hide behind the "parents" excuse if you have a teacher that does not care about teaching. This isn't a judgement on the entire school system either, this is acknowledging the fact that a poor teach CAN be responsible for a child's failure and WILL be responsible for it if the child has no other outlets for learning available. And honestly, could you really tell me that if a student has a poor teacher and doesn't do well, the fault lies on the student for not teaching themselves instead of the teacher for being a failure or the system for mandating attendance to school yet not providing the child with what they need once they get there? I'm not trying to duck out of personal accountability, but can't you see that if the system is in place to do a specific task and people either go to them by choice or are forced to them by law (e.g. schools teaching children, universities providing higher education for money, etc.), they have an obligation to provide that service in the fullest and most earnest capacity they can? This is the point of having a professor in front of a class and not having someone design a reading program and calling it a "class", sometimes people need to have someone else that is knowledgeable on the subject to answer questions they may have. I've had professors that were "books-on-tape", it sucks.


I agree with you that the older school of thought of learning by rote isn't terribly effective, especially not at this point in time, but there are simply some things where there is nothing more to them than just knowing that they are what they are, and they are critical enough that they NEED to be learned, so if rote is the only way it can be done, then so be it.

We have to keep at least some bottom line of basic knowledge and basic skills, or we will become so codependent on our technology that if and when it fails us we will be helpless and hopeless.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top