Unions in Michigan

"the fact that someone got yelled at because they took out the garbage and took away a union job sounds like total exaggerated BS."

Blackened.... Don't know about the situation Fosters is referring too, but when I was in the hotel/convention/tradeshow business, the unions were exactely like that.....

When setting up on the show floor there was a process...
The union that layed the carpet came in, unless wires needed to be layed under the carpet... If the wire were not there 1st, the electricians union employees could not just pull back the carpet... They had to call the other union to perform the task, adding time, and an add on of a minimum number of hours regardless of if the task took 10 minutes or an hour.....

I understand the expertise in some jobs (certainly would not want my circuits and breakers installed by the guys who lay carpet:eek:) but I think you can see this as an example of gross inefficiency adding to the cost of the event needlessly.
 
Blackened300a said:
It's agreed upon the employer, the union don't call you up and tell you to pay out more money, a contract is issued if you agree to the terms, you sign it and continue to be a union shop, if you don't like the terms you can go non-union or go to the board and work out a agreement with all the other businesses within a local. A union can't survive unless a agreement is made and a business agrees to the terms.
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This is true, but how many times has a contract been signed that has been good for the company.

My personal experience with Unions was a negative one for many reasons. However, I do understand that no all unions or union reps (presidents, stewards, etc) act in the same manner or as unreasonable as those with whom I've had the opportunity to negotiate.

Employeees no the rules and should be held accountable for their actions. The unions would have more credibility if they also held the barganing unit employees accountable rather than sticking up for them even when there is a pile of documentation stating the employers case.
 
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I worked as a non union employee in a union shop many years ago. We were not exactly treated well by either the employees or the company. We made considerably less money than the union employees.

Then in my main career I was a member of three different unions. We, the member employees, fired two of the unions and formed our own. I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly union wise since I was VP of my statewide local. Overall, a correctly run union is a assest to both the employee and the employer. On a number of occaisons the union interceded to help a situation that was determental to both the employee and employer. Not to mention we'd have been making 3rd world wages if the employer could have gotten away with it. Oh, and we were forbidden to strike by law.
 
GAMike said:
I understand the expertise in some jobs (certainly would not want my circuits and breakers installed by the guys who lay carpet:eek:) but I think you can see this as an example of gross inefficiency adding to the cost of the event needlessly.
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We had issues like that where a certain trade had to come in and complete a small task that could have been completed by anyone. The case was a fishtank that was delivered to the Bloomberg building in midtown. It was delivered and it became a pissing match on who was to install it between the carpenters because it was made of wood, the plumbers because it was to be piped in, and the electricians because it had to be wired in. I completely understand your point and i find it annoying at times when I would pull up on a jobsite and they would have to find a operating engineer to offload the truck, especially when its a small load, but it's a union job site so it's either all or nothing. If you let a plumber wire up a building and working out of trade, then the electricians are out of a job and vice versa, then it snowballs and there is no end to it. On a union job site you are to do the job in the trade that you are hired to do.
The example given before sounded like as if a electrician would yell at someone for plugging in a coffee pot.
 
I loved the way they changed a light bulb at the union shop I mentioned. An electrician to change the bulb, and electricians apprentice or assistant to hold the ladder and a company supervisor to ensure it was done properly. A half dozen bulbs and the days over. :eek: seriously, yes... Its a large, well known company, that made the 1st copying machines.
 
Fosters said:
http://www.afscme3800.org/strikefaq

Ok I never mentioned anything about being fired for striking. It's the same law here in NY, a employee can't be fired or have action taken against them for striking.




Really, no one is forced to join a union? How come when one uses that argument - that if you don't like the benefits at a company, you don't have to work there and you can find another job - you all jump up and down and cry and moan about corporate greed? My ex worked for a railway, Canadian Pacific, find me a railroad company that's NOT unionized. If my dream is to be a locomotive engineer/conductor, there is no non-union shop. I can maybe be an engineer for one of those amusement park train rides...?

That actually made me laugh out loud. If its your dream to be a engineer then why not join the union and be paid to be a engineer? My father was a engineer for the LIRR, he put in his 30 years and collected a engineer and trainmen pension, plus medical for my mother and himself for the rest of his life. What is so wrong about that? He paid into the pension plan all his life so he gets to enjoy it instead of having to work til he physically can't anymore.


So if your family's truck drivers went on break, had a 5th of vodka and smoked some weed, you'd be ok with it putting your company at risk, and shooting your company's reputation in the foot when the video aired on national tv? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of your union employees do that.

That goes back to what I said before, if there is suspicion of someone being intoxicated they are sent down to a clinic for a test. This can't be refused or else they are suspended without pay and have to go to a hearing at the union hall. I am subject to random mandatory drug testing according to the union. They send a letter to the shop and I have to take the day off and get tested.

The right to work says if you like your union, you can be part of it. If I don't like your union, I can be not a part of it. If my wages are going to be lower and I'm ok with that, then it's my damned right to do as I please. If an employer wants to pay me next to nothing, guess what, I leave, and they will have to find someone else. Yes, in IT there are a few employers that want to pay 50k/yr for someone with vast experience in a lot of things; while others will pay 3x that. Guess where I'm going? I'm not gonna go to the 50k/yr employer, go on strike, shut down operations, and throw a temper tantrum whining about corporate greed, and how I should be paid a pension and everything else I think I'm owed.

Think we are owed??? We pay into that with our dues and our wages. It is owed because its OUR money put into these funds. The only reason why we go on strike is because of unsafe work conditions, unpaid hours worked, or the employer not keeping up their end of the agreement that they signed in the contract.

I guess it's corporate greed that wants to pad the bottom line that kept GM and Chrysler out of bankruptcy. Oh, wait, nevermind, it didn't, unions sure won that one! Because being unemployed from a high paying job that moved to Mexico or a right to work state is much better than being paid at a lower paying job...

I guess what it comes down to, is what I earn, I earn on my own, and I don't use collectivism to blackmail employers into paying me wages I otherwise couldn't earn.
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Blackmail? The employers signed the contract, they breach the contract it's not blackmail, it's getting the money that you deserve for the job that you bust your ass doing.
This is one of those arguments that will never have a end. Some unions suck and make it easy to hate them, other unions are for the worker and make it a smart choice to work unionized. Its certainly never going to be settled on a car forum.
 
This is another example of a topic that will not have a good outcome.

Same as politics and religion, just to name a few.

I have already closed 2 threads, and this will be the third if you guys don't play nice.

Obviously, I am not in the mood today, and this shat is wearing on me.

Mike.
 
Guys this world is getting crazy. Corporations are out of control, unions are out of control, people are out of control, the internet is out of control -just unbelievable.

It's amazing how money has become the end all be all for so many people. Greed has to be the number 1 thing that has taken over America and divided us. I know we all need to survive and make a decent living for our families but we are only going to do that if we work together to make it happen.

Both sides have some great points-understand how both sides have been perverted over the years but the reality is the more we waste our time on bickering the worst this crap gets.

I am tired of the step on another person to get ahead in life philosophy. I think it is wrong and we some how lost our way.....
 
Here's my main concern with our country, we fight and bicker with one another, we kill each other, but the real threat are people who want to knock down our country buildings at a time ,yet and and still we remain divided, we allow politics to define us as a people!
Terrorist be it the Talibahn ,or some nut from this country doesn't care what party we represent ,they just want all of us dead!
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE WILL CERTAINLY FALL!
We need to stand up for one AMERICA the United States of America!
 
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MOTOWN MARAUDER said:
Here's my main concern with our country, we fight and bicker with one another, we kill each other, but the real threat are people who want to knock down our country buildings at a time ,yet and and still we remain divided, we allow politics to define us as a people!
Terrorist be it the Talibahn ,or some nut from this country doesn't care what party we represent ,they just want all of us dead!
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE WILL CERTAINLY FALL!
We need to stand up for one AMERICA the United States of America!
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I agree with you-at the end of the day we are all Americans or people (Kernie) who wished they were Americans. :eek:

I can sit here and moan and groan about everything but what good does it really do for me or you? :argue:

It is a cathartic release though........and keeps Mike's blood pressure high :burnout:
 
1 Bad Merc said:
I agree with you-at the end of the day we are all Americans or people (Kernie) who wished they were Americans. :eek:

I can sit here and moan and groan about everything but what good does it really do for me or you? :argue:

It is a cathartic release though........and keeps Mike's blood pressure high :burnout:
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Oh, are you freaking kidding me! Not in a freakin million years, lol.

How can i say it enough?, lol.
 
kernie said:
Oh, are you freaking kidding me! Not in a freakin million years, lol.

How can i say it enough?, lol.
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Perhaps two posts will do it!

Are you freaking kidding me, lol. Not in a billion years, not even a visit is in my plans!

Lol.
 
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