Sick of American-car bashing....

[Joe Walsh]

I'm not saying all of this to proclaim fact. I'm hoping to encourage a bit of discussion and get us all to think in broader strokes than "Your commie Honda Sucks".

NO, I only said:

YOUR
HONDA
SUCKS

I never made any political references...

Lets look at everything and see where we can make the biggest difference. Ie: If we not only bought Fords, but bought all of the shares we could (which would be a lot at the current prices), then attended the shareholders meetings, maybe we could make a real difference in the company we love.

I did and I have....

Ford does not make anything that I would be interested in buying anymore...except for the new Mustang, and I already own two Mustangs now.

I have bought lots of FORD stock (2500+ shares), and I'm done buying it! No matter how cheap it is now!
What was once a $50,000+ investment is now worth less than $20,000.
I can't afford to snap up FORD stock at such a low $7.50/share current price.
I'm looking to dump all of it....If it EVER crawls above $10/share.

 

[RCSignals]

When I was younger, I drove nothing but GM cars. Until that fateful daily joke was pulled on me in the form of a 1991 Bonneville SSEi Supercharged. I felt like I was on Candid Camera daily. Then it was lovingly wrecked in the side by a stop sign runner. I had to drive it wrecked after making a mint on it. I saw a charcoal gray Toyota Cressida (this was in 1994 BTW) at Bill Branch Chevrolet and tried to buy it on the spot with CA$H. Salesman takes a look at me and says "that car is expensive, can your mommy co-sign for you?" If I remember, I had about $6800.00 cash on me. I left leaving a nice smoke show (I didn't care, the Bonneville was a total loss) and went down the street and got a Ford Probe LX (Mazda 626 drivetrain), loaded with EVERYTHING for $4,000 out the door!!!! Drove that until 205,000 miles and sold it to my cousin. She drove it for thre more years. Bought a 1995 Taurus SE in '97 and put 282,000 miles on it. Replaced one tranny, the radiator and A/C clutch. That is all. Now I have the Marauder and I am a Ford guy to the marrow. I work on cars every day and get to take them apart so I see how they're built. Those of you with newer GM cars and trucks - you have it coming when it comes to replacing stuff. I have a customer with a Plummer (plastic Hummer) H2 and his door latch failed to latch and threw off the security, the door chime and keyless entry. When it was replaced out of warranty it was in excess of $600.00 because it was tied in to a door computer and needed to be programmed in. A 40 dollar part. I hate GM cars with a criminal passion and I was never fond of Chrysler after my brother was stuck with a Neon that had all the paint fly off like teflon primer was used. Honda cars feel old and tired when thay have 60K on the odometer. Toyota's feel like bolt-upright appliances. I have found that simplicity gives me the greatest joy. I have driven a BMW 760 Li with the iDrive system and it is the class-leader for eyes-off-the-road time. I don't need doors that pull closed by themselves or wipers that start when a drop of water hits the glass. I hate Daytime Running Lamps and believe they take away a motorcyclists edge in traffic. Okay, I am done whining.

Nicely said.

 

[Leadfoot281]

Never underestimate stupidity.

There are a lot of people out there that base their car buying decision on how many cup holders a vehical has.

Many times I've had people wheel into my driveway and show off their new cars. The very first thing they show me is the "neat-o" cup holders in the dash, seats, doors, seat backs, and center console.

It usually goes something like this;

"Hey Leadfoot! Check it out! I even have an auxillary power plug next to the cigarette lighter so I can run a lap top computor! How cool is that?!"

But dude, you don't even own a lap top computor...

"I could run one though!"

You could also drink 11 Slurpees on your way to work...

"Sure could!"

Is this why you bought the car?

"Well, American cars just don't have the features this one does. Japanesse cars are so much more advanced in terms of technology".

Like the power outlets you'll never use?

"Yep!"

Never underestimate stupidity. Or the power of marketing gew-gaws, bells and whistles, and gimicky useless crap.

Honestly, how many of you tried to "wow" your friends the power adjustable gas/brake pedels in the Marauder? (I did). When was that last time you actually used them? Car mags always report the number of cup holders a car has. And just like my stupid friends, they rate cars based on cup holder/passenger ratio.

Cup holders sell cars. I blame my unused adjustable pedals on picky, stupid magazines that crucify American cars for "lack of features compared to their Japanesse counter parts".

 

[dwasson]

Cup holders sell cars. I blame my unused adjustable pedals on picky, stupid magazines that crucify American cars for "lack of features compared to their Japanesse counter parts".

That may all be true. But then all that it means is that Ford is just too damn stupid to build enough cup holders into their cars.

Rule #1 is, The customer is never wrong. If you insist that the people who buy hondas are stupid you will never do what you must do to compete. If the US car market demands 11 cup holders per vehicle you either give them that or you deserve to go out of business.

And the adjustable pedals are a big hit with the old women who drive the Grand Marquis. My Aunt Lucy is about five foot nothing and the pedals were a major reason she bought the GM.

 

[RUSTY]

Some of my friends have bought cars recently. One friend sold his two Chevys and bought a two Toyotas. Two of my other friends bought Saturns, one new and one used, They have a low resale so they can be had cheap and they swear by the very very durable powertrain.
Who makes these engines?

 

[Bluerauder]

There are a lot of people out there that base their car buying decision on how many cup holders a vehicle has.

I bought the Marauder just for the cup holders. Seems I was misinformed. :rofl:

 

[not5-0]

I live in America, I work in America, I make money in America, This is why I only buy American.

That pretty much sums it up. As an American I feel a strong obligation to buy American products. In todays America the almighty dollar prevails over what's right, and buying American is simply "right". Please don't give me an economics lesson about free trade and commerce because nothing will change What is in my heart.:flag:

 

[Master]

Yup. If its in your heart, then you don't have to worry about any one discussing or arguing with you. You know the Marauder is made in Canada, though, right?

 

[Peter]

I live in America, I work in America, I make money in America, This is why I only buy American.

I live in Canada, I work in Canada, I make money in Canada and USA , This is why I only buy Canadian(manufactured).

 

[UAW 588]

As a proud member of the United Auto Workers Union and Ford Motor Company Employee, I'd like to say





JAP CARS SUCK!!!!!!​

 

[dwasson]

It's the triumph of emotion over education.

 

[Leadfoot281]

That may all be true. But then all that it means is that Ford is just too damn stupid to build enough cup holders into their cars.

Rule #1 is, The customer is never wrong. If you insist that the people who buy hondas are stupid you will never do what you must do to compete. If the US car market demands 11 cup holders per vehicle you either give them that or you deserve to go out of business.

And the adjustable pedals are a big hit with the old women who drive the Grand Marquis. My Aunt Lucy is about five foot nothing and the pedals were a major reason she bought the GM.

Nice point about the pedals.

The point I was trying to make was about domestic car manufactures being put in second place by car mags due to losing the cup holder war.(and other trinkets). These are the same magazines that measure interior room in 10ths of inches. Who uses 10ths of inches? How do you divide an inch into tenths? Shouldn't an inch be divided into 16ths?

These same car mags also determine truck of the year on quarter mile times and ease of ingress. This is akin to giving Playmate of the year to the one with the highest grade point average. The BMW iDrive is a perfect example of this.

The customer is always right. The manufactures should stop pretending that Consumer Reports/Car and Driver/Motor Trend is the customer. People have also got to stop making car purchases based on faulty/irrelevant/bogus tesing procedures and useless trivial statistics published by the same magazines.

I'd be OK with buying a car based on a magazine review if they used my testing standards. They don't. The test a car (or truck) and it passes or fails based on what they feel it should be like. As it is now, it's just a long running, and not very funny, joke.

 

[Dr Caleb]

I bought the Marauder just for the cup holders. Seems I was misinformed. :rofl:

That's exactally what I was thinking. My car is not a restaraunt, therefore cupholders are redundant.

But I have been known to put a piping hot Timmies into one while on long road trips. So I guess ONE cupholder per car is needed.

 

[not5-0]

Yup. If its in your heart, then you don't have to worry about any one discussing or arguing with you. You know the Marauder is made in Canada, though, right?

I was aware of that....I do believe FOMOCO is an American company therefore I consider the Marauder a product of an American company regardless of where it is built.....:canada: :flag:

 

[dwasson]

People have also got to stop making car purchases based on faulty/irrelevant/bogus tesing procedures and useless trivial statistics published by the same magazines.

Why do people have make their decisions based on what you think is right?

People buy the things they do because these things meet a perceived need. If you are shopping for a transportation appliance to move you and your troop to Wal-Mart and Grandma's, cup holders may be a major differenciator.

When we bought our Jeep in 1994 the major decision point was the configuration of the cargo area. There are dozens of other reasons to choose the Cherokee, or the Explorer, or the Blazer, but the one that mattered to us was how well the dog crates fit into the back.

When the wife bought her last Accord her major reason was that he last four Hondas had been reliable and easy to live with. She had owned Ford, GM, and Chryslers in the past and had been let down by all of them. The Hondas have never broke down and left her on the side of the road. Think about it, if your last experience with a manufacturer was negative you would try another manufacturer. If the company that abused your trust comes back and says, "Give us another chance. We're a lot better now", wouldn't you ask yourself why you should change when the company you've been dealing with since then has always given good value? Until Honda gets her PO'd Ford is not likely to get another chance.

When I bought my Marauder, it was the only American built car I looked at. There was/is not another American car that interests me enough to ask the salesman what it costs. If the Marauder was not there I would be in a Honda, Toyota, or Nissan now. So, with Ford discontinuing the one car that I liked, should I reward them by buying something that I don't want?

If cupholders, fractions of inches in Consumer Reports tests, or autocross times, is what drives the consumer's decision making then Ford's management is guilty of fiduciary malfeasance by not giving customers what they want. Unfortunately, Ford management's poor decision making is likely to cost some people their jobs. I feel bad about that, but not bad enough to drive something I don't want.

 

[Mach1]

It's the triumph of emotion over education.

Or maybe the triumph of living only for today, over planning for the long term.

 

[Green96]

I was always a Ford or Chrysler man, but then I let myself be lured in by the dark side. I purchased a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GT. After 1 year and 4 months I was able to unload the biggest POS that I have ever owned. I felt lucky when I only had to fork over a check for $350 to the new owner to cover my loss on the heap. There were to many issue to count, but the last straw was not the problems. It was the way I was treated. That is why I will never own another GM product again.

So, when I went looking for a replacement (it was my wifes car by the way) what could I do. Chrysler was off my list thanks to my 2002 Dodge Dakota and the neverending game or replace the warped rotors, and Ford just didn't have anything to offer (she wanted small to mid-sized FWD and sorry but the Taurus was a turd). I got her a VW Jetta.

I did not want to to an import, but in one way all of the domestics had failed me (mechanical issues / lack of product offering). The sad thing is, the VW was the best new car I have ever purchased (my Marauder was used so it doesn't count).

On the bright side, she is now in a Mercury Milan. It is 10 months old, and working perfectly. Hope it stays that way.

 

[GreekGod]

Power pedals...

I'm only 5'6" tall, with ape-like features. The power adjustable pedals are a nice extra on the Panther platform. Granny can hug the steering wheel, even if she shouldn't. I keep my seat all the way back, and the pedals never get re-adjusted because I'm the only driver. It is supposed to be safer to stay as far back from the airbag as possible.

 

[Leadfoot281]

Wasn't Motor Trend magazine busted back in the ninties in a scandal involving GM? IIRC they were taking money from them in exchange for positive reviews.

All I can say is that, yes, I agree. Car mags do bash on American cars. A lot. Some deserve it. Most don't. But car mags that NEVER bash on Japanesse or European cars are clearly showing a bias.

I think it would be fun to see what those editors drive. Maybe they are just like my ex-girlfriend. She still thinks all cars need $500/month in repairs. What did she drive?

Several Chrysler K-cars. (Omnis, Horizons, and Daytonas)
Several V-6 Cavaliers.
A Chevy Citation.
A Geo Storm.
A Chevy LUV.
A Chrysler Cirrus.

That is a list that will make anyone hate American cars.(notice how there are no Fords on the list?). I pointed that out to her and POOF! She's gone...

Dan, you should look at American Standard (AMSTD).Their stock is doing great. I got in it 10 years ago and I've seen it split three ways. Last time I checked, it's up 19% YTD. Also, buying Hondas probably won't help your Ford stock.

 

[dwasson]

We're not settling aything with this thread. So, let me ask the obvious question that nobody wants to address. If you think that everyone should buy american cars, what are you willing to do to see that happen? Would you use government to address this issue? Are you willing to reduce your neighbor's freedom to buy and drive what they want? Would you make everyone in the country pay more for cars by applying tariffs? How would you fix it?